1. John Q Public on June 12, 2005 07:25 PM writes...

Happy Fourth Of July
Freedom, Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness
It is quite unnecessary to be a pottie mouth to demonstrate the freedom of speech. Rather, if you please, the listener always has a freedom of choice not to indulge in the lascivious of some podcasters of which the podcasters receive a spurious gratification knowing how much poison
has been promulgated by looking at the traffic log. I firmly believe that dirty podcasters receive some sort of personal pleasure in creating and distributing filth; you know the bigger the microphone the bigger the_____, svp you please the audience.

Freedom is choice, the choice not to listen to pottie mouths poison.

2. Rob Greenlee on June 13, 2005 07:08 AM writes...

Jeff,

Your last question is far more important. We all still have a choice whether we listen to or create audio shows with profanity. I just think that smart human beings can communicate without using crude four-letter words. The english language has plenty of words to describe the same thing as using swear words.

I cannot think of one good reason to swear in a podcast or in everyday life. Can you ?

As a listener, I feel like the podcaster who uses language like this has insulted the intelligence of their audience.

It is sad that some in society feel that in order to be considered cool one must swear and use profane language.

Many of the most popular and well known podcasters swear a lot in their podcasts and to this day I do not see how it adds to them at all. It only lessens the credibility of the podcaster in my view.

Just because you can swear in your podcast does not mean that you should swear in your podcasts. The whole TechPodcasts Network has written a no profanity clause into the agreement the every podcaster signs. I agree with it being in it and it is not being done to censor anybody. It is being done because it is just the correct thing to do to build a diverse and complete audience as we don't want to offend listeners who did not expect to hear foul language.

Rob Greenlee
WebTalk Radio
http://www.webtalkradio.com

3. Tim Coyne on June 13, 2005 11:43 AM writes...

I recently listened to the Ana Marie Cox interview on IT Conversations. In the interview, Ana swears quite a bit and constantly refers to "ass fucking". I am so glad that Doug Kaye didn't edit this out. The interview is great and Ana's use of this language is funny and DOES add to the interview. John Q. and Rob - your line of thinking is much more dangerous to podcasting than the words "ass" and "fuck". "Pottie words" did not lessen the credibility of the interview or of IT Conversations.

4. Jay on June 13, 2005 02:20 PM writes...

The regulations of the FCC are whats fueling the podcast craze. Podcasting lets one truly shut it off (don't download) if they are offended. Unregulated podcasts are not broadcasted via a public airwaves. So "Timmy" can't tune it unless his parents are irresponsible and let him get it via the web.

I respect everybody's opinion, but some of the previous comments are what's wrong with Radio/TV today. Judgments on what others say and do (in this medium) are not yours to judge. I have an opinion, but don't decree whats right and wrong or how it will effect society. Nobody is really qualified to determine that!

Did Janet Jackson's "boob" ever hurt anybody! Did we even get to see the nipple? I don't recall...probably because I do not care. That's just me.

5. Eric Rice on June 13, 2005 02:24 PM writes...

A few ideas here: I'm a little surprised the conversation is swinging in the direction of 'should we' instead of 'how do we know if there is ____'.

This topic walks along some interesting lines... unrestricted and unregulated citizen mediums becoming faced with language ethics (among others, I'm sure).

Also, is this uncharted territory where profane 'words' are becoming less profane? Trust me, I can certainly be infinitely more vulgar and profane without using a single 'profane' word, using all the proper English of these modern times.

(History, btw, shows that our existing profanity was never profane... referring to a 'leg' or 'arm' was ultra-taboo.)

Food for thought.

6. Tim Coyne on June 13, 2005 03:41 PM writes...

I'm with you, Eric and Jay. I guess I think that "we" shouldn't be talking about what "we" SHOULD be doing.

The beauty of podcasting is that I do what I want and say what I want and I'll decide if it is serving me or my listeners. Groupthink and censorship in this medium is dangerous and will slide us right into what terrestrial radio already is.

The first two comments in this thread really scare the hell out of me. I'm going to worry about ME and MY listeners instead of WE and YOUR listeners. There are already some podcast directories that say they won't host any podcasts with profanity. That's cool and I get it but it does scare me that they even exist. Yikes!

I appreciate the dialogue fellow podcasters.

7. Tim 'Gonzo' Gordon on June 13, 2005 04:26 PM writes...

I'm all for free speech. I'm also all for not listening to stuff that either offends or annoys me. George Carlin's 'Seven Words' bit was classic, and dammit, funny. And it was an effective use of language and had redeeming social value. I know because even the US Supreme Court agreed with me.

Profanity doesn't offend me in and of itself. If the word is used in a way that works in the context I don't have a problem. If the speaker uses a lot of profanity because he's not smart enough to be more descriptive, that offends me. The use of profanity will not make up for stupidity and lack of verbalization skills. Seems to me that many people will use profanity because it seems to them to be the best way to get their point across. Sometimes is it, many times it is not.

I do a podcast about once a week, and over twenty or so episodes I think I've use a couple of so-called profane words maybe 4 or 5 times. It just came out of my mouth because at the time it seemed the most descriptive. And yes, in an unscripted setting, as most podcasts are, those words will come out. It's how people talk. It's real.

Much as I agree with Robert Heinlein's assessment that 'moderation is for monks,' profanity should be self-moderated by the person behind the microphone. It may be trite, but it's true that with freedom of speech comes the responsibility to use that freedom wisely.

8. Charlie Quidnunc on June 13, 2005 10:27 PM writes...

I think that Doug Kaye's broadcast of the Ana Marie Cox interview was terrific. He started it off by letting the listeners know that there was adult content, and when my kids were in the car with me, I turned it off. I then enjoyed the interview in private. Cox's whole marketing pitch is profanity, so of course she had to include it, or disappoint her fans.

As a parent I take profanity very seriously. I was shocked and upset when the Bandtrax Podcast suddenly changed from a program describing music and musicians to one where both hosts suddenly decided that they had to include the word "fuck" several times in their podcast. No notice, no warning, just "fuck". Of course, my kids were in the car when they decided that the only way they could explain the musician was to resort to profanity. This is unacceptable, and podcasters have to more sensitive to the rest of the listening public who have children.

9. Tim Coyne on June 14, 2005 09:00 AM writes...

Charlie, I totally hear you and I understand why you were thrown off a bit when Bandtrax suddenly used profanity. I don't think they have a responsibility to you or your children though. I think you have the right, as a listener, to contact them and tell them your feelings but it gets sketchy when we have to adjust to your definition of what is profane and offensive. I also think it will take time for all of us to adjust to this level of freedom that we have in podcasting. I think many of us are starting to realize how limited we have been by many of the traditional media outlets and formats. Respectfully, you're going to have to adjust to podcasting, not the other way around. This is the risk YOU take in listening with your children around.

10. Eric Rice on June 14, 2005 02:46 PM writes...

Another thought on this issue hit me this morning. Guess who is NOT part of this discussion? FCC. ClearChannel. Infinity.

That almost seals the deal. The court of public opinion (whether or not we agree or not) includes one key thing: the *public*.

11. Rob Greenlee on June 14, 2005 03:13 PM writes...

Please don't misunderstand me. I am a firm believer of freedom of speech and do not under any circumstances endorsing that we censor speech or podcasts. I just feel that we have a responsibility to treat our freedom of speech with respect. We need to be aware of other people’s sensitivities in the area of language usage. We really don’t need to use vulgar and offensive language in our podcasts to communicate with our audience.

Those that do use swear words are only really doing it for the shock factor or cannot control themselves. Please don’t give me the line that it is anything else than that. People keep climbing on this freedom of speech thing as an excuse for being able to shock listeners with language. That is all it is plain and simple. You know it and I know it.

I have had first hand experience with this issue on my WebTalk radio show over the years. I have had guests on my show that have used swear words on my program and while it stirs up listener feedback and interest. The feedback is almost always negative about the use of swear words.

I also feel that really my issue around this is a personal choice and a good percentage of any podcasters audience will be offended by swear words in a podcast. I tend to agree that if people must use swear words in a podcast that it should not be a surprise to the listener as that is when the problem comes into play.

This freedom demand responsibility and that demands at least some sort of self-rating system. I am hoping that a standard system will be developed by some podcast standards group.

It could be something simple like G = General Audience (Children Safe), MA = Mature Audiences (Includes Coarse & Crude Language).

We just need to let people know what content is being sent to them and that they don’t get an unpleasant surprise.

Rob Greenlee
WebTalk Radio
http://www.webtalkradio.com

12. Tim Coyne on June 16, 2005 10:02 AM writes...

Rob, I'm sorry man. You are very uptight. Your latest post is scarier that your first. You use the term "offensive language" as if there is a universal definition. You would probably say the word "fuck" in a podcast would be "offensive" and that it would be an "unpleasant surprise". Listen to Dave Winer's most recent Morning Coffee Notes - 6/15/05. Not only was his use of the word "fuck" funny, it was the perfect word and a PLEASANT surprise. YOU can do anything you like but I totally disagree that WE have a responsibility. WE can do whatever we want! The last thing podcasting needs is a "podcast standards group"!

Respectfully,
Tim

13. Rob Greenlee on June 17, 2005 04:36 AM writes...

Tim,

I don't think that a podcast with potentially offensive language is as broadly appealing to a larger audience. No one ever complains that a radio show or podcast is missing offensive language. I have never had a listener write me to curse at me for not saying crude language in my radio show. Your argument for crude and potentially offensive language is that it adds to the quality of the content of some programs. While it may add a funny element to a program in your mind, it also looses its impact with a significant number of potential listeners. Many purist podcasters crave the limited format and content appeal of a podcast, since commercialization is not the goal for many. It is based on doing things in a podcast that are considered new and different by comparison to broadcast radio. The thought is we should all say and do everything in a podcast because we now can without FCC oversight. Podcasters like this include words like these for the shock value only. I know it and you know it. It is like a kid throwing a rock and breaking a window, then running away and trying to get away with it. We all know it is not right.

My whole point is that just because we can say these potentially offensive words, does not always mean we should say them without notifying the audience through a rating system. You are welcome to listen too and create podcasting content with offensive language as it is your right, but don’t force it on the rest of us. Why we are not allowed to know in advance that potentially offensive language is used in a piece of content.

Sincerely,
Rob Greenlee
WebTalkRadio.com

14. Tim Coyne on June 19, 2005 12:06 AM writes...

Rob,

The audience will decide what they want to listen to and since most of us, unlike you, are not BROADcasted on the public airwaves, we can do whatever we want. If we think we should tell our audience anything about language, which by the way hasn't ever been proven to be dangerous or harmful, then we will.

You are not only proposing a ratings system, you are going as far to say that it is a podcaster's responsibilty. On top of that, you are judging that it's all for "shock value" and that it "just isn't right". You whole argument is based on right and wrong. Well, many folks do not subscribe to your definition of right and wrong and what is for "shock value".

One of the great things about Podcasting is that, unlike terrestrial radio, we can survive on 1,000 listeners or 10 listeners. We're not going to get cancelled. So, we can do exactly what we want, without guidelines, ratings systems, or Rob Greenlee's definition of what is good or bad for us.

You clearly are pleasing your listeners. I think that is great! That's what you should be focussed on, not other podcasters and their listeners.

Always with Respect,
Tim

PS Clearly people are dying to get away from guidlines, FCC, etc - blogging, podcasting, and satellite radio are the proof. SHe would issue profanity guidelines on blogging as well?

15. Bear on June 21, 2005 10:45 PM writes...

Ok. I'm guilty. So shoot me.

My podcasts contain the word *&%$, and on more than one occasion, I've displayed a warning that my podcasts contained "adult" material. (And, parenthetically, I thought I was very nice for doing that.)

All in all, it's free-form radio (sort of) and since I'm a free-form kinda guy, my ordinary speech is peppered with a #*%& here and there, and my podcasts are, too.

I don't mind if someone uses the "f-word" or the "s-word" occasionally, and most people have never said they mind me using them occasionally.

I DO object to graphically detailed descriptions of sexual acts or of elimination of bodily wastes, and would simply stop the podcast if that were the case.

Where am I going with this?

I guess, in the final analysis, podcasts appear to be like most people's ordinary speech, and it's rarely harsh enough for me to get upset.

I don't want to see the cyber-police writing tickets for "dirty word" usage, and I REALLY don't want to see prudes mounting big campaigns to stamp out "potty talk".

Geez! Lighten the fuck up, y'all!

-Bear
The Bear Cave
http://bear.staroftexas.net