1. jeneane on May 5, 2005 11:03 AM writes...

Stowe--I agree completely. I think where mainstream media and broadcasting can flatter us appropriately AND offer something that hasn't been done yet is to incorporate blogging/ers into some tv shows, movies, etc. Because, really, I don't want to HEAR about what other bloggers are saying, I want to see how blogging interrupts or embellishes their lives. Soap Opera Love Interest #1: "Hold on, baby, lemme push post." Just once.

Seinfeld, come back and let us watch Kramer respond to a post about quilting with a rant about the garment industry, flailing his arms about and getting up to pace every three seconds. I want mainstream entertainment to -- just once -- reflect how more and more of us are living our online and offline lives simultaneously. Reporting on it is redundant. Recognizing, accepting, and entertaining us with it would be different.

I guess I'm saying that it seems like they could be a little more creative.

2. Steve Baker on May 5, 2005 03:54 PM writes...

Stowe,
Thanks for tuning in and commenting. I think we have a good thread starting here. Instinctively I understand your point that we newcomers should sit back, read, study, and learn the customs before plunging in. That's the way we're taught to deal with new cultures, whether it's the school board or the Yanamami.

But then I started thinking about it, and I began to see that the world you're describing is peopled by insiders--cognoscenti--surrounded by newcomers (ie. us). And from the sound of it, our role is to sit quietly for a few weeks (months?)like children at the dinner table.

Here's the funny part. It seems to me that what you're describing, in effect, is a blog establishment that must be heeded. OK, maybe these rules and customs have evolved within a community. But a very similar process has occurred throughout history within societies and even religions. With time, establishments rise up and dictate those norms, which eventually become encrusted in law and liturgy.

Now I'm a newcomer, but isn't the mainstream media's sense of establishment one of the things that most irks outsiders?
One other point. Maybe my point about DaimlerChrysler was way off mark. It wouldn't be the first time. And no matter how much time I spend schooling myself in blogs, it won't be the last. But if I hadn't ventured that opinion, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And isn't it a good thing that we are?
Thanks and see you soon, Steve Baker

3. Stowe Boyd on May 5, 2005 10:08 PM writes...

Steve -

No, it's not so much an establishment, as a social context. It's not just the bloggers, it's the discussion that you need to get involved in between blggers and their communtiies. It's not that you need to sit at the table and be quiet for six months: by all means talk. But what many have done (and you are not) is just writing stuff at their blogs, and letting it fly. without becoming engaged in active communities.

I am not suggesting that journalists need to come and kiss the rings of bloggers; they need to get involved in what actual communities are talking about.

The broadcast model -- where the major pubs decide what's important, and so on -- is being replaced by participatory journalism. So smart journalists who are trying to report on it, will sensibly adopt more of the core principles of the blogosphere and not just the superficial elements -- like the bloggish time stamping that was used in the Businessweek front page piece recently.

The rationale for spending time reading before writing is just as much about learning what the involved readers of blogs care about as it is hearing what the bloggers are writing.

Never forget the readers. They contribute so much, and in this new journalism, they are contributors, just like the writers.

4. Clyde Smith on May 6, 2005 03:25 PM writes...

I was dubious about Blogspotting, particularly when I read the cover story in BW. They seemed to be missing a lot of the action in business blogging and turning to certain historical figures who seem increasingly irrelevant to current endeavors.

But they've impressed me, given the range of things they're trying to cover and the fact that they're actually blogging. I think they're doing a good job and I look forward to where they go next.

It's interesting, I used to check out Corante blogs a while back and so few of them were updated regularly, many of them seemingly abandoned, that I laughed when I saw recent references to Corante blogs. In fact, that may have been one of the reasons I found the BW article suspect, but I'm not going back to check that one out.

It's nice to see you guys getting back in the game but your history really speaks to your credibility on this particular topic.

5. Bas Burger on May 7, 2005 12:47 PM writes...

To Steve: It's not about in and outsiders...

A journalist is used to have one way conversations where they do the speaking and everybody else does the listning. Blogging is comparable with a 2 way conversation whether it's one to one or one to many, there is speaking and listning at the same time going on. When people say they have no time to listen but only to talk, they are being percepted by the others in that conversation as very rude and unmannered, if not manipulative.

So in short: Blogging is about having conversations and debates, it's not a one way marketing tool, don't try to use it as such, eventually people see right through that.

To quote the Wailers: You can fool some people some time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

6. Michael Parekh on May 7, 2005 09:19 PM writes...

Great thread, Stowe...thanks for starting it.
The line that resonated with me in particular is when jeneane says:

"I want mainstream entertainment to -- just once -- reflect how more and more of us are living our online and offline lives simultaneously. Reporting on it is redundant."

This is spot on...blogging is just a new, currently fashionable word for something many of us have been doing online for a couple of decades...whether it's in the form of communicating and building a community in usenet groups, or on forums on CompuServe, and now in the form of "blogs", it's about living a part of your life online.

Until recently, most thought it pretty bizarre, geeky, and/or anti-social, with attempts to disguise how sorry they felt for us folk who probably needed to get a real life.

What blogs obviously do is take this complementary life into the mainstream, where everybody goes through these eurekas of discovering the unique attributes of having online personas, friends, communities and discussions that provide growth, community, and entertainment.

The mainstream media needs to provide the long-term context to all this, and not just treat each version of online life (usenet,forums, chat, IM, web home pages, and now blogs), as something new to be studied and used on magazine covers to spur sales around a new faddish trend.

And online users need to be more tolerant and welcoming of the "newbies" in each new phase of living online. Patience and communication are the key, and this thread is a good start.

7. simon on May 8, 2005 10:06 AM writes...

Excellent observation ... instead of participating as an equal they would rather observe as a superior all knowing journalist ... too bad it's their loss

8. Fred X. Quimby on May 9, 2005 09:47 AM writes...

Apparently, no one has realized yet that Maureen O'Gara is actually Jeff Gannon/Gucket in a dress.